Making Space, Taking Time (Alternatively: January is the Longest Month)

Welcome to the first full episode of our podcast! We’re Jess and Lisa—best friends, moms, and professionals in our forties—figuring out the messy middle of life together. If you’ve ever felt stretched thin between work, family, and your own aspirations, you’re not alone. This is the space where we unpack the real, raw, and sometimes hilarious moments of navigating personal and professional growth at the same time.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

• January is the longest month of the year, and this year it has some fun existential dread peppered in
• Lisa unpacks what it means to take up space, especially in a male-dominated workforce. She struggles with not wanting to take up time and resources from others at work, and recognizes this is holding her back.
• Jess unpacks the difference between a "manager's schedule" with lots of meetings, and a "creator's schedule" that allows for deep, uninterrupted work. She is trying to find ways to prioritize exercise and self-care within her schedule as an entrepreneur, which needs to accommodate both manager and creator schedules.
• Both ladies look for the adult in the room, only to realize that it's them.

Tune in next week as we dive into overachievement and stress—we can’t wait to unpack it with you!

Transcript

Jess (00:22):
So Lisa, what are you bringing in to our space today?

Lisa (00:40):
Hi, hi. Hi. Oh man. First episode, I'm mostly excited about just recording and being here with you, but I will say, so as we're recording this, it is January, which is I think commonly known to be probably the longest month of the year, and December tends to be more like the shortest month of the year, so it feels perpetually longer, and I am definitely feeling that and feeling the weight of the winter and lots of changes in our country. And I have lots of personal stuff going on, so I have felt very, I think heaviness is probably the right word for it. I don't know exactly, but that's really how I'm showing up today is this combination of very excited to be starting this process with you and to start putting our thoughts and our discussions in this format is really exciting. And then also just the heaviness that is kind of everything right now is very palpable for me too. What about you?

Jess (01:56):
I totally get that. I was just talking to a colleague and basically the same thing. It's like my body is safe, my family is safe, everything is on its surface good in my immediate world, and yet there's kind of this maybe deeper heaviness and maybe some existential dread that's happening just outside the door. And so that's how I'm showing up too. I would say I slept really well last night, which was awesome. I've gotten some movement into my day the last couple of days, so I'm a little bit sore, but it's like that good sore that reminds me that my body is strong, that I did something. And yeah, I'm definitely really excited for this.

Lisa (02:50):
Yeah, I mean is existential dread, I'll use your term, something that you don't often suffer from. I don't feel like that's something that I hear you say a ton of. So it feels like kind of next level from maybe just a general level of discomfort or disquiet about something.

Jess (03:10):
So I think existential dread is maybe too dramatic. That puts too dramatic spin on it. I realized that those were my words, so it's like that feeling of too bigness, something is just too big to really wrap my mind around. I have a lot of colleagues that are working in the DEI space directly, and so there's a lot of fear and anxiety and just so I know that those don't have to be my feelings if I'm not experiencing them directly, but it's like an awareness of this other thing that's too big, that's way bigger than me that's kind of there. And I think I feel honestly it doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't impact me directly. My work is not directly impacted, but I can feel it in.

Lisa (04:20):
I mean, I don't know if your work isn't directly impacted. I feel like, I don't know, there's a lot of trickle downs, but I think you're right. It's easy to say, well, I'm not somebody who's losing my job.

Jess (04:34):
That's what I mean,

Lisa (04:34):
Right?

Jess (04:35):
Yeah, exactly.

Lisa (04:35):
I'm not losing my job, I'm not losing my income, or friends of mine are not dropping off the face of the planet or anything like that. But it does. I mean, these are things we care about.

Jess (04:47):
Yeah, and I think it's how you described it is the heaviness and all of the changes and really just, I don't feel like I'm totally well footed. I haven't totally found my footing or that I'm able to make sense of everything right now. And maybe that's the existential piece

Lisa (05:10):
Yeah, it's also a new year too, and there's a lot of self and redefining that happens in a brand new year when you're kind of taking stock of things and assessing where things are at. And it just happens to be, as we're talking here right now, just one of those kind of unique situations where there's a lot of new things happening and it's a new year all at the same time.

Jess (05:36):
Exactly. One of my former employees, she had this wonderful way to check in with your body and check in with yourself, and she would say, HALT: am I hungry? Am I angry? Am I lonely? Am I tired? And then I think there's maybe added thing that I want to add of just like, well, I'm not hungry. I'm not angry. I'm not really lonely. I'm here with my best friend. I'm not tired. I slept well. So okay, I can move forward.

Lisa (06:14):
And I mean, I think that's a superiorly good idea to do, to be able to have the bandwidth and have the forethought and all of that to check in with yourself when things are going on. So I think that's really awesome for you in particular. I would say, am I overstimulated too?

Jess (06:34):
Oh yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (06:35):
That would be a huge one, especially for you. And I think it is for me too, I don't think I'm quite as aware of it as you are. I think I'm still working on what overstimulates me and what kind of drives me to that place of like, oh, I just need the space from the touching. And mostly that's it for me is I need space from touching, but it's just a good thing to be aware of, and I think it's an ideal state to get to the point in real life when you go to make a decision and you check in with yourself, or you go to do a thing or say a thing or take an action and you check in with yourself, it's just a great, great life goal. Maybe I'm not close to that. I

Jess (07:14):
Mean, we can only take one step at a time.

Lisa (07:18):
Yeah, yeah. We're all works in progress

Jess (07:21):
And masterpieces,

Lisa (07:22):
So not that and simultaneously masterpieces of the highest possible order. Yeah, for sure. Exactly. For sure. Sure. Well, it sounds like we happy. Yeah, we're very much kind of in the same space right now, which is not surprising given how close we are as people and citizens of the world. But yeah, let's get to the main event here, which is going to be you and I going through something that we're unpacking in our lives in a little bit more detail and a little bit more deep thought. I feel like we kind of did that a little bit just now with the heaviness conversation. But this is an opportunity for us to go further into what we're unpacking, what's going on in our lives from a really specific point of view. And so for the audience out there, we do this blind. So Jess does not know what I'm going to bring to unpack and vice versa, and it's just going to be an opportunity for us to react cold to what the other person is going through, which is not terribly dissimilar to what we do in our real lives most days, but we don't have any foreknowledge of what the other person is bringing to talk about.

(08:44):
I think that will just be a good conversation in that way. So yeah, so let's do it.

Jess (08:51):
Yeah. What are you unpacking today, Lisa?

Lisa (08:54):
Yeah, I feel like we need a jingle in between. And now moving on to the next thing. Maybe

Jess (09:00):
Our producer can add that too.

Lisa (09:01):
Yeah. Hey producer, can you get on that? Alright, so this is so topical and I chose this topic before the events of today actually unfolded, so

Jess (09:18):
Oh, okay.

Lisa (09:18):
We are at roughly lunchtime on the day that we're recording, and I have had several meetings at work up until this point, and so I'll get into a little bit more of that later. But the thing that I've been unpacking in this last week and truly my entire life, I mean truly, truly back to the beginning of Lisa, at least Lisa as an adult, is the concept of taking up space

(09:50):
And being comfortable to take up space. And the reason why I think this goes back to early days, Lisa, like childhood Lisa, is because I think this is something that comes very much from a conditioned sort of environment of, in my case, being independent and being something really core to me is feeling like I can do things on my own and be an expert and rise above expectations. This is a really common theme for me, but I work in corporate America as you know, and I am fairly new to my position as a manager and a program manager for a global program for a very, very large tech corporation in the United States. And I'm new to all of this, and still, regardless of the fact that I am new to it, I still don't want to be the person who takes up time and resources and energy and thought from other people.

(11:02):
I want to believe that I have everything within me to do this job end to end without ever having to actually reach out for help. And that is objectively ridiculous. It just doesn't even make sense to conceptualize it that way. And yet when it comes down to it, I struggle to reach out and say, I don't know what to do because I have this patent fear of people I guess saying, wow, she really doesn't know how to do this job, or she's really not capable. And so like I said, there's a billion. This is truly the definition of lots to unpack there. It really is truly. So don't worry, I'll give you your opportunity to do that in a second, but this is what I'm unpacking. And the funny part about it is that today, about an hour and a half ago, I had my annual performance reflection for my first year at this company with my manager who's a VP of the company. And the largest piece of feedback was to reach out more and be more vulnerable and ask for what I need, which is hilarious that I had chosen this topic long before today only to come into that being the biggest piece of feedback that he gave me. And I was like, wow, if that's not preordained to be the discussion topic, I don't know what could possibly else be. So that is what I'm unpacking today and truly always.

Jess (12:39):
Yeah, I think you're totally right that there is a lot to unpack there. That's kind of the definition. But I want to start with what does it mean to you to take up space?

Lisa (12:54):
I mean, it could be something as simple as just sending someone a message and asking for their opinion. It could be, and I've been thinking because I've been thinking about this for a little while, I've been notating what those different things are. So I will tell you some of them, it's funny you should ask, since I have them all ready not speaking in a meeting when there are already too many people speaking, that to me is too,

Jess (13:25):
This is, okay. So these are things that you find that you do that are not indicative of taking up space that are the opposite of that,

Lisa (13:36):
That are trying to not take up space from other people. So if I'm in a meeting and there's a bunch of people talking, even if they're all saying not super interesting or terribly useful things, I will hold back my opinion because I don't want to be another voice that's just talking.

Jess (13:56):
Even

Lisa (13:56):
If my opinion, I happen to know if I'm in a room of people talking about stuff that I happen to know about that what I'm going to say is going to be more poignant or more kind of on the nose for what we're discussing, I will still naturally hold back my opinion of that not requesting help or reaching out to peers for discussions that affect both of us, or at least even further down that line me. If it just affects me, that was going to be basically an impossible thing for me to reach out for help about because then I don't feel like there's any mutual benefit for the other person.

(14:30):
When time is short on a call in a meeting, I will quickly run through my thing to make sure that we have enough time for everybody. I'm deferential in that way to other people who have to still speak. Whereas I have seen lots of people, and I'm not going to call out specifics, but I've seen in particular lots of men who are perfectly willing to slow their pace, talk about all the details that they feel like need to be talked about and not rush through any of it and give it the kind of, I don't know, space that it deserves in that discussion. And I will naturally just, okay, lemme just tell you this real quick so that you can move on to the next person. So I do that as well.

(15:24):
And I found that there's also another kind dark side to this. Not only am I not getting the help that I need, but there's also the detrimental part of this, which is if you don't ask for it and then you don't get it right, then you're, it's going to be on the record that you got it wrong and without ever requesting help on it. So it went in the performance reflection sort of a thing like this. If you never ask for the help and you get it wrong, let's say probably at least some percentage of the time that's going to be on you as like, well, you didn't ask for help and now it's wrong. Well, now you kind of got two problems. So that is sort of what I, I'm sure there's lots more examples than that, but those were the ones that kind of jotted down in the last couple of weeks.

Jess (16:13):
Yeah, I was thinking in the coaching world, we say ask one question at a time, follow the breadcrumbs that makes sense. But I was thinking which question do I want to ask? First One is, what does it mean to take up space? And then the other is how is not taking up space affecting you? And you kind of answered both of those things in the same one fell swoop,

Lisa (16:43):
And that really pushes on that high achiever button for me. So thank you for that. Yeah.

Jess (16:50):
Anything I can do to give you a little treats. Right. So you want to have this realization that not taking up space is impacting you in some sort of negative way. What needs to shift so that you can start to take up space?

Lisa (17:13):
Well, yes, exactly. I think some of it is a mindset shift of people are there to help, especially my manager. I have the added benefit of knowing full well that my manager, the VP that I referenced is doing three people's jobs because it's corporate America and there's never enough resources to go around. So he's essentially doing three different people's jobs, and I'm very conscious of that. I'm conscious of the fact that he works 16 hour days most days that he works weekends, that he works, holidays. I'm very conscious of all of that, and likewise, many of my peers and other people are very stretched thin. But I think maybe the biggest shift is knowing that the stuff that I have, that I have to relay, that I have to speak, that I have to, all of those different examples that I gave that is still important. And maybe it's more of a shift of not downplaying the work that I do compared to the work that everyone else does and not seeing it as less important to take up that time because the time is the time. It's a 24 hour cycle no matter what we do. And maybe this is a realization I'm having at this moment is that maybe there's a part of me that has always seen my stuff as less important because it's mine.

Jess (18:49):
What does that mean?

Lisa (18:51):
I don't know. Maybe there's a kind of intrinsic bias there that it's just little old me. How can my stuff be as important as some other thing that a VP is working on with all these fancy SVPs and C-suite people, and how can this possibly be as important as that? But maybe the switch is just assuming that it is just assuming that it is that important and that the work that I'm doing as a program manager for the entire company is worthy of that space and time

(19:29):
And it's not even about help. And I think maybe separating those two is going to be important for me because there's a double barrier there for me, which is the importance and the help, the reaching out for help too. Maybe I could put the help part on the shelf and say, well, you're not really asking for help. You're showing the importance of the work you do. And then I can do it on behalf of the people who work for me rather than on behalf of myself. And maybe that is the separation I need to do to make sure that those things get the time and space and energy and thought and reflection and all of the things from those other people who I am so hesitant to take up space from.

Jess (20:10):
It's so interesting that one of the ways to get past this in this idea of taking up space in terms of the importance of the thing, is to think about not just yourself, but who else you're representing By doing that,

Lisa (20:28):
It's definitely easier. That's a much shorter path to success for me because I care so deeply about the people who work for me that I feel very much responsible for.

Jess (20:42):
I wonder if, I know you said we will put the asking for help on a shelf a little bit, but I wonder if that way of thinking might also help you access that helping space.

Lisa (20:54):
Because I have to take a slight diatribe here though. Help on a shelf would be so much better than Elf on a Shelf for Christmas. And I just heard the parallel and I was like, can I get the help on a shelf and give back the elf on a shelf? I hate that thing. So sorry. You were making a very well reason point and I completely derailed you, but I could not resist the help on a shelf.

Jess (21:17):
No, it's fine. But I think as moms and as leaders, we are never just really acting in our own. And so even when you're asking for help, and this is me, I'm kind of stepping out of coachy hat and more into best friend hat you are not just help doing it for yourself, you're doing it for the other people too. Because if you are learning how to do something, then now you're in a position to teach somebody else how to do something, and now you're helping to develop other people. And if you are asking for what you need in a home setting, taking up space, then you're modeling for your kids that it's okay to ask for help because your purpose is to help them grow and develop as people.

Lisa (22:14):
Yeah. Well, I think there's always that feeling, I don't know, this is true for me as a mom as much as it is for me as a leader, which is you look around and you are looking for the person to be the reasonable person who knows all the stuff. And then you're like, oh, that's me. I'm supposed to know all the stuff. I'm supposed to have all the answers. I'm supposed to demonstrate all the good behavior and all of the thought through and not rely on my emotions and not fall back on bad habits. And yet we're completely human beings that have all of those things. And it is easier to rely on the fact that you are a model for other people, but then in another sense, the responsibility of that is sometimes a little weighty.

Jess (23:06):
But I think that goes to what we tell ourselves about what it means to be. And this is what was modeled for us that parents know best. And that paradigm has been passed down generation to generation or that adults know best. And we know as we get older, I remember when my mom turned 40 and that was this big, do

Lisa (23:28):
You really

Jess (23:29):
Thing? I do, yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (23:32):
I have no memory of that. My mom was basically 60 the entire time I was growing up. As far as I know. I feel like she has not changed an age even once. I don't remember his single birthday.

Jess (23:42):
Yeah. Well, I remember this. It was very brief jogged down memory lane because it was a surprise party. And I don't remember ever having a surprise party for one of my parents, but it was a big birthday, and she got this mug from my grandfather, from my dad's dad that said, I think it was from him, it might've been from somebody else on my dad's side of the family, but I would rather be 40 than pregnant. And she was also pregnant because she had my little brother when she was 40. So anyway, but I remember thinking about my grownups as being infallible, and I think that's something that we are starting to shift collectively in our generation, that we are all figuring it out and that we don't, the responsibility to hold all the answers doesn't lie within us alone. And also, I very much feel that I need an adult, where's the adult in the room and like, oh, shoot, it's me. I'm the adult in the room. And that's really hard too, so I feel you on that weightiness.

Lisa (24:58):
Yeah, yeah. But it can be a good thing too sometimes where you can be like, oh yeah, I do have, I think this happens more and more where I'm just like, oh, right, I have learned a bunch of stuff and I just know stuff now that I didn't know before. And that's pretty cool too. And you think about people in their eighties and you're like, you must know a bunch of stuff because you've just simply been around and absorbed things over the last 80 years. So I think it gives and it takes away, but

Jess (25:30):
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that because in my book last night, two of the characters were talking and one person is like, well, I'm way older than you. And the other person's like, oh, well you must think that you're so much wiser. And that first person's like, no, I just have more practice that's staying alive. Exactly. I have more time on target. And that's true. Some things.

Lisa (25:51):
I mean, honestly, we could go so philosophical with that, but truly that is the goal. Stay alive as long as you can pass on as much knowledge as you can, boiling the whole thing down, and yeah, that's where we're at. We've got 40 years both of us, of absorbing not dying.

Jess (26:14):
I wonder, so kind, bringing it back to your topic of taking up space. I want to hear what steps you want to take in moving forward with taking up more space. But before I hear that, I, I'm curious if relieving that pressure to know it all might help you access that I asking questions or taking up space.

Lisa (26:46):
Space. What's funny about that is that I wish that were the problem. I know I don't know it all and I still don't ask for help. I'm very conscious that I don't know what I'm doing, and I just will spend cycle after cycle trying to find the answer. And sometimes I do, and sometimes there is no right answer. And what I need is for a person to say, there is no right answer, but here's an answer for you, take it or leave it. And dealing with that delta.

Jess (27:17):
Yeah, it's not about knowing it, it's about figuring it out yourself,

Lisa (27:22):
Kind of. Yes. And being the type of person that could

Jess (27:26):
Figure

Lisa (27:26):
It out, knowing that there's a certain margin for error on that one. And when you're new to a company and new to a role and new to management and new to so many things that margin for errors not insignificant. Yeah. So yeah, I really wish it was me just being like that, but

Jess (27:49):
Yeah. Fair. So what are you learning? What do you want to take away as your first step in this?

Lisa (27:57):
I mean, luckily after my conversation today, some of the pressure has been taken off automatically anyway, because I'm being mandated to do this. This is like, you must improve in this area to be successful. And so part of me is going like, okay, well this isn't my fault anymore. This is now something I'm being told to do. So I can always kind of point back to this and say, well, you wanted me to be this way, so here it is. Not that I think I would ever have to do that. So part of that is going to be now like, oh, in order to meet the expectations I'm being told to meet, I have to do this thing. So that's a little bit pressure taken off. But I think just the importance of what we're doing and the reliance that my team has on me, getting the right answer as soon as possible and cutting out that time of me trying to figure it out is probably going to be enough to push me over the edge.

(29:00):
I would also really like to take a step to find at least somewhat safe person within my workspace. I am the only female manager for miles around in the organization that I work in. And it is incredibly difficult from that perspective to feel like I, it's a whole nother layer to this whole taking up space idea, which is that I'm the only female and I'm the newest and I'm lots of stuff, but the female thing gets me because I just don't want to be needy. I don't want to have meetings that they see as superfluous or a waste of time because

Jess (29:40):
Oh my gosh, but how many meetings do you go to that are scheduled by men that you're like, that was superfluous. That was a waste of time. That could have

Lisa (29:48):
Been a year less so now than in other roles that I've been in. Certainly in my work in the government, that was the majority of the things that I went to. But yeah, and just I'm so good at reading people. It's a gift and a curse, and I can tell when someone is like, I have so many other things that I need to be doing right now, even if it's not, there's so many other things that I'd rather be doing right now. I have so many other things that I need to be doing right now and helping you was not on my checklist for today. And I can read that in people because unfortunately I have a ton of training and a ton of knowledge in this space, and it's very evident to me. So that's yet another thing that I just need to ignore, I guess.

Jess (30:37):
You turn the volume down.

Lisa (30:39):
Yeah. I don't use it for my job anymore, so maybe because I don't use it on a day-to-day basis, I can maybe switch it off a little bit. But yeah,

Jess (30:52):
So much still to unpack.

Lisa (30:53):
I know I feel like, I don't know whether we should check back in on these things in the future on the podcast and be like, how are you doing with taking up space? Maybe that's something we should discuss.

Jess (31:03):
I think we should, yeah,

Lisa (31:04):
All. I think we should put it on the list. All. Yeah. Sounds good. Well, thanks. Do we have time for you to unpack something? Is that

Jess (31:13):
What's on the I think so. I think so. Yeah. So what I'm unpacking is kind of multifaceted, but it is part of my unpacking of my relationship with time.

New Speaker (31:27):
And

Jess (31:28):
So my husband and I were talking last week maybe, and he brought up this distinction between a manager's schedule and a creator's schedule. And a manager's schedule is lots and lots of meetings interspersed with you get maybe 30 minutes of working and following up and email and whatever in between meetings, which I know is also familiar for you. And very rarely do managers schedule themselves for deep work. And so he is a computer engineer, and for him to get in the zone, he really needs this big chunk of uninterrupted time to get to it. And so when people schedule things at like 10 30 thinking like, oh, that's a good mid-morning, just completely wrecks that entire chunk of time because they're on a manager's schedule, he's on a creator schedule.

(32:33):
And so it got me looking at my schedule, and I have to straddle both worlds because I'm an entrepreneur and I meet with clients. And so when I'm meeting with clients, it is easier to click into manager mode where I have a couple of client meetings stacked in the day, and that's the thing I work on that day. And then another day I might have a big chunk of uninterrupted time, and that can be some deep work time. What I'm unpacking is that as it relates to scheduling in some sort of movement or exercise every day, because one thing I'm realizing, as I would say as I'm getting older, but really it's just so hard to start a new habit of exercising every day. Before my youngest was born, I was on the treadmill every day. I was running at 25, at least 25 miles every month, sometimes 50 miles every month. It was just really, it felt good. I felt strong, I felt capable. Things were so much better, and I know that my mental health is so much better when I exercise. My body image is so much better when I exercise, even when there's no discernible change in how I look. And so I'm approaching my schedule with this new lens of I know that I need support, I need a scheduled support in getting this movement into my day every day.

(34:10):
But I also have to look at what time of day each week is my manager's schedule versus my creator's schedule and just what needs to happen with

Lisa (34:21):
That. Yeah. I think the idea of what is your schedule and what of your schedule do you have control over and what aspects of your schedule do you not have control over? And I've seen some literature on this about the first thing is understanding when you work the best in that deep work that you talked about, understanding what kind of person you are and what kind of, I think they put it in categories of birds. Don't quote me on that, but it's like Lark, early bird, something else. I don't know. Nightingale, maybe. That sounds right. I dunno. I mean, I know you well enough, Jess to know that you are definitely a night person, not a morning person. So I would not expect your deep work to happen in the morning. Of course, lovingly the opposite. And I start work at five 30 in the morning every day, and I swear I get more accomplished from five 30 to six 30 in the morning than I get accomplished pretty much for the rest of the day. So I couldn't possibly give up that time because it's so critical to me. But I think firstly, figuring out when your deep work is the best and when your exercise is the best for me, I know that ironically, working out in the morning does not work for me. It doesn't work. It's not going to happen,

Jess (35:45):
Right? So I'm looking at my schedule and I'm a Peloton user, and they just unveiled this, well, maybe not just, I don't know, I'm just logged in, so I just saw it, but it's like this planned exercise thing. Yeah, it's new to me and it's like you say how many days a week you want to exercise and what your goals are and what types of exercise you want to do, and it just plots the whole thing for you. I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing. But then as I was looking to schedule, I was like, if I look at my schedule and I have two client meetings in the morning and a wide open afternoon, my initial tendency is like I will schedule it in the middle of the afternoon

Lisa (36:29):
Because

Jess (36:30):
I have so much free time. That'll be great. But then I will get into my deep work and I'll be like, oh, I can't do this right now. So I think I really need to exercise in the morning, even though it sucks and I hate

Lisa (36:44):
It.

Jess (36:44):
But

Lisa (36:45):
Well, I think there's another layer to that which you just hit on, which is understanding what times of day you work best. And then if there is a conflict, you have to prioritize what's the most important thing to do. I mean, let's just say 12:00 PM to 4:00 PM is just your best time of day period for everything. Then you have to go through the work of saying, okay, of all the things that could fit into that space, what is the priority? And then what has to move to a different time slot in order to accommodate that priority? So now we have kind of like a two-pronged, okay, figure out what kind of bird you are. If that evenness feeds the process, then figure out what time of day you tend to work best, and then prioritize what everything could fit in there. Luckily, there's some things that are just not going to fit in that space. Your kids, generally speaking, your kids are going to be off doing their kid things at that time of day, daycare and school and all that. So you can kind of take that off the list of things that could potentially take up that space, but you're still going to have those competing items.

New Speaker (37:51):
I know.

Lisa (37:51):
Yeah. This is something I think about honestly so much because I don't think we ever get the control over our schedules that we would really, I mean, you probably have the most control over your schedule of anybody I know because you own your own business and you get to set the times for the different things, but also you don't because there's so many variables that go into that, and where do you push back and put those boundaries around it, and where do you say, I have to be accommodating to the rest of the world because I'm not the queen of the world.

Jess (38:27):
And for me, there's kind of the added thing of when do my clients need or want to meet

New Speaker (38:33):
Because

Jess (38:33):
I am keeping big chunks of availability for potential, and that means that time is earmarked, and so I really need the kind of work around that. I think I had one exercise thing scheduled for next week, and I scheduled it. It was at 12, I think I scheduled it. I have a client from or a meeting from 10 to 11 that day, and I was like, oh, yeah, okay, so I'll schedule this for 12, it'll be fine. And then I was thinking about it. I'm like, crap, I might have a client who wants to meet with me during that time, and because I've scheduled my exercise there, it's on my calendar, it's blocked off the soon as that person is going to be able to meet with me, it's 1230. And so I was like, wait here a second. This is way too hard. Let me just move it earlier in the day and then it's done. And then I kind of get the best of both things. But that question of what are your priorities versus what are you prioritizing

Lisa (39:32):
Huge

Jess (39:33):
And the flexibility that's required to say, oh, okay, so I had this time open for potential. You're marked it for potential. Now nothing is scheduled during that time. So that becomes deep work. And then at what point, maybe it's the day before, maybe it's the week before, I just say I'm going to block off that time for deep work so that I can do both things.

Lisa (40:01):
And I want to bring back something that you said earlier on, which is that I need schedule support. You said I need schedule support to make that happen, but you write your schedule, so what you really need is just support. You need to support yourself in doing the thing that you want to do, and you have to be your advocate within your schedule to do that. And maybe that's a different reframe that you can take from it is I need Jess to be a friend here and protect this time because it's required. It's a priority for me.

Jess (40:34):
Exactly. I think you just totally hit the nail on the head. It reminds me of a coaching session where I was the client and the coach was like, okay, so we can talk about your schedule or we can talk about your relationship with time. Which one seems better? I was like, oh, dang. That's like a mic drop when you put it that way. We should probably talk about my relationship with time, but it is the structure piece, and because I don't have that external structure, I have to create that for myself. And it's like I think I do still, productivity in my world is so different than it was before when I was working in corporate

Lisa (41:13):
Air. Yes. It's a whole other thing to unpack is productivity,

Jess (41:16):
Full other thing, tune in for the next

Lisa (41:18):
Episode where we unpack productivity.

Jess (41:21):
Yeah, I mean, I've had some pretty big ahas in that regard, but it is finding the place in my schedule where it can still mesh with people in the corporate world and also support the things that I want to prioritize for myself. It's like there's a lot of time that happens right now. I think

Lisa (41:47):
It really is the most precious resource. There is no more precious resource than time. Truly.

Jess (41:55):
Yeah. I mean, I think before I would feel guilty about taking time for myself when I was on company time and now I am company time. All of my time is myself, is for me all of the time is company time.

Lisa (42:08):
I think that's both liberating and also kind of crushing in some ways too. You are the beginning and the end of where success or failure lies, and that is super liberating. And this also can feel kind of daunting, I'm sure from time to time.

Jess (42:25):
Yeah, a hundred percent.

Lisa (42:26):
Yeah.

Jess (42:28):
Well, thanks for unpacking that with me. I think for sure my takeaway there, it's that aha you shared of I don't really need schedule support. I need my own support. I need to back myself up and take care of

Lisa (42:41):
Yourself. You can pretend it's me. If it's helpful,

Jess (42:45):
It's helpful. Okay.

Lisa (42:47):
Just pretend I really need to work out. And you're like, damn it. Lisa's going to get her workout time come hell her high water.

New Speaker (42:56):
Yeah. Yeah,

Lisa (42:57):
Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it's super, super important for both of us. Probably for everybody I'm guessing, but yeah, so should we land this plane?

Jess (43:09):
Yeah, let's land it. So how do we land it?

Lisa (43:17):
How do we land it? I think, well, first of all, I'm feeling better because I'm talking to you and always talking to you makes me feel better, but also because it feels really good to put this first episode out into the world and whatever happens with it, whoever listens to it, I hope they get something from it, but I know I'm getting something from it, so that makes me

Jess (43:41):
Happy. Yeah, same. I think that's, maybe that's the way to land the plane is we started this episode with how are we feeling and kind of what's coming up for us. And I know I said I am not really feeling super centered. I feel like I'm kind of trying to find my balance, and in talking to you, I feel balanced and ready to get on my day, which is really cool.

Lisa (44:06):
Yeah, I'm so flattered. Well, thank you. I am loving it. So thanks so much. Love you so much. Talk to you later. Love you.

Jess (44:16):
All right. Bye. Bye.